The diligent administrative assistant moves up to supervisor but fails. The assembly line worker is promoted to foreman but cannot do the job. A teacher earns a deputy principal position in a school but falls flat on their face. Why is that? Why does this seem to happen across organizations?
In The Peter Principle, Lawrence J. Peter and Raymond Hull not only provides answers to these questions, they delve into all the possible implications. The Principle goes like this, “In a hierarchy, everyone rises to their level of incompetence.” How they derived this principle the subject of our conversation that explores one of the funniest but more insightful book on the perils of organizational life ever written.
Alfred Sloan was President, Chairman, and CEO of General Motors from 1923 to 1956. His memoir “My Years at General Motors” tells his story about how he took a corporation consisting of several disparate and competing companies and shaped them into division that manufactured cars tailored to different segments of society. He constantly pursued and integrated new technologies into the automobiles themselves while also shaping the buying experience through the introductions of different styles, improved relations with dealings, and financial services that rivaled banks.
Frederick Herzberg’s “The Motivation to Work” presents the results of over 200 interviews with engineers and accountants working in the Pittsburgh area regarding what satisfied and dissatisfied them on the job. They would find that factors leading to satisfaction, such as achievement and performance, were very different than those leading to dissatisfaction, such as company policies or relationships with co-workers and managers. The result became known as Herzberg’s Two-Factor Theory of Job Satisfaction, also known as the motivator-hygiene theory.
This month, we discuss examine Lupton’s famous study of worker-management relations, "On the Shop Floor: Two Studies of Workshop Organization and Output" published in 1963. Tom Lupton spent 12 months as a factor worker in two different settings examining why workers intentionally worked at a level below management expectations. He found that social structures formed that protected workers from overuse or abuse by management and ensured a stable pay. These structures discouraged workers from working too hard or not hard enough. In Part 1, we will examine the cases in depth and present Lupton’s findings.
We discuss several works by Jay Galbraith on the theory and practice of organizational design, which is about creating organizations to provide better outcomes and serve the organization’s purpose and strategy. This episode begins with a focus on one of Jay Galbraith’s earlier publications, an article titled, “Organizational Design: An Information Processing View” for designing organizations to make better decisions in times of high uncertainty, and then brings in his more recent works promoting his five-point “Star Model,” a design tool for use by managers.
We discuss a critique of business education -- Sumantra Ghoshal’s article from the Academy of Management Learning and Education, “Bad Management Theories are Destroying Good Management Practices.” He describes a feedback loop between schools and practitioners that has led to theories based on a “pretense of knowledge” that assumes causality and predictability of the business environment and a “gloomy vision” that assumes the worst of human nature. In effect, theories are built around ideas that managers cannot be trusted and matters of complexity can be managed through mathematical models, setting ethics and morals aside. A great think piece for considering the roles of business schools and professional education!
2020 ushered in a full year of major change and renewed a lot of conversations about how we work, live, and cooperate in organizations and societies. In that spirit, we discuss Melville Dalton's classic 1959 book "Men Who Manage: Fusions of Feeling and Theory in Administration." The study provided an intimate look at how men (as these were all men at the time) entered into the managerial culture of a firm, how the separations between managers are workers were structured and maintained, and how managers felt about their standing -- which ranged from secure to tenuous. In Part 1, we focus on the study itself, which is still very relevant not only for understanding what happens within the circle of managers but also how the boundaries can exclude others, particularly along gender lines.
Celebrate five years of the Talking About Organizations Podcast with us!!!
Happy 5th Anniversary!!!
On October 13, 2015 — The Talking About Organizations Podcast descended upon the unsuspecting world of academia with the release of Episode 1: Scientific Management – F.W. Taylor’s One Best Way, covering the much misunderstood and severely misrepresented work of Frederick Winslow Taylor. Our original quartet of podcasters Dmitrijs, Ralph, Pedro, and Miranda (aka 3 late-stage PhD students and Ralph) took a leap of faith to get behind something they truly believed in – that the field of management and organizational studies was in trouble because of systemic neglect of its own history and foundations, and that a semi-serious podcast might be a way to help fix that. Still, the question remained – would this project last beyond the first few releases, would it have lasting value, or would they succumb to excessive workload and finally heed the word of their more serious colleagues about not wasting time on silly things and publishing papers instead, if they ever wanted to get a job in academia?
And here we are five years later — with many new cast members and sixty-nine episodes under our belt — and still going strong! Reaching beyond the traditional canon of classics with the works of Fayol, Maslow, Weber, and so many others; we have included more recent “classics” such as Hochschild, Kerr, and Forester; commentaries on movies, plays, and documentaries from Twelve Angry Mento American Factory; and various conference specials from the Organizational Knowledge, Learning, and Capabilities conference and the Academy of Management‘s annual meeting. Our podcast reaches thousands of listeners each month and is included in the curriculum of at least (confirmed) thirty-eight business schools and universities around the world!
And so, on October 13, 2020 (in a year when any sort of festivity is a welcome diversion), we are celebrating our fifth anniversary with a series of releases spread out over the next two weeks. Details on each of the releases are below. Come join us and share a virtual beverage of your choice as we ring in five years of Talking About Organizations!
Note: Pictured from L to R: Pedro, Catherine, Maikel, Dmitrijs, Tom, Leonardo, Miranda, Ralph
Part 1 (released October 13th). “Behind the Curtain: How We Do the Podcast”
In these release, we offer listeners an insider perspective on the making of our episodes. Dmitrijs, Pedro, Ralph, and Tom discuss how we choose an episode topic, schedule it, record it and conduct post-production, and release it through the web and RSS feeds. We also talk about the broader Talking About Organizations Network and what we enjoy most about doing the podcast.
Part 2 (released October 13th). “Questions from our Listeners”
About a month before the anniversary, we solicited questions from our listeners about things they wanted to know or suggestions for the podcast. Out of the large number of excellent questions received; Dmitrijs, Miranda, Maikel, Jarryd, and Tom broke it down to five that we tackled and discussed in our own Talking About Organizations way. The questions are:
I was thinking about the politics of publishing in peer-review nowadays. What does a naive junior scholar need to know to get their work published – down to the nitty-gritty? Would that be something?
We would like to hear more about <pick one: sociomateriality studies / strategy as practice / charisma in leadership in small and medium sized firms, etc.> What are the gaps that we need to plug?
In 1993 Jeffrey Pfeffer wrote a highly cited article in AMR called Barriers to the Advancement of Organizational Science: Paradigm Development as Dependent Variable. In it he argues that the field of organisational science (i.e., management and organisational studies) displays a high degree of dissensus compared with other social science disciplines such as economics and political science. “The question for organizational science is whether the field can strike an appropriate balance between theoretical tyranny and an anything goes attitude, which seems to be more characteristic of the present state.” My question, to draw upon the technology product terms, is this is a bug of our discipline or a feature?
I think the podcast could provide some further understanding for the issues we are facing right now and how org theory can help tackle them: virtual work / remote work, the end of the office, conspiracy theories, heavy disruption, mental exhaustion and burn out, high uncertainty, etc. I believe existing theories have a lot to say about those contemporary issues. I think you should also consider covering new papers or books rather than very established ones or streams of literature. e.g. the pieces that get awards if they explore new perspectives or literatures? Not things we have seen a large number of times! (we also included a related question submitted to us at the last minute about mini-meetings and remote work)
How can the podcast explore grand challenges or wicked problems? There is not always a single seminal work that encompasses such problems, which are pervasive in our modern environment.
Part 3 (released October 21st). “Perspectives of our Guests”
In this final release of our 5th year celebration, we welcome the perspectives of several past guests, hosts, and observers of past recordings — with additional commentary from cast members Pedro, Miranda, Catherine, Leonardo, and Tom. Our guests discussed the experiences (and fun) of participating in the podcast, the podcast’s current role and potential future directions, and the state of scholarship in organization studies. We thank our guests for taking time out of their busy schedules to talk with us!
Ella Hafermalz — Former co-host of the program who participated in ten episodes — 28 (Organizations as Rhetoric), 31 (Process Studies), 35 (Emotional Labor), 41 (Images of Organization), 49 (Engineered Culture & Normative Control), 50 (50th Episode celebration), 51 (Tyranny of Light), 53 (Charlie Chaplain’s Modern Times), 57 (Reward Systems), and 66 (Workplace Isolation, as returning Special Guest)
Deborah Brewis — Guest of Episode 17 on Rosabeth Moss Kanter and tokenism; Deborah was instrumental in establishing our thematic collection with the Management Learning Journal.
Simone Phipps & Leon Prieto — Guests of Episode 56 on Charles Clinton Spaulding and African-American contributions to management scholarship.
Maja Korica — Guest of Episode 52 on Rosemary Stewart and management in practice.
Marc Ventresca — Guest of Episode 46, covering a professional development workshop (PDW) on classics of organization theory and management science at the Academy of Management annual meeting in 2018
Fabricio Neves & Polyana Silva — Two of our loyal listeners who even joined the virtual audience for recordings of Episode 64 (Disasters and Crisis Management) and Episode 66 (Workplace Isolation)
We discuss Charlie Chaplin's 1936 film "Modern Times" balances great physical comedy with powerful social commentary. Chaplin portrayed a hapless Worker on an assembly line who is tormented both by supervisors and the work itself. After being subjected to a humiliating experiment intended to improve the line's efficiency, the Worker runs through a series of rotating jobs, stints in jail, and other misadventures as he tries to find his purpose in life.
With Special Guest Maja Korica from the Warwick Business School, UK!
Rosemary Stewart
So what do managers do in practice? How do they spend their time (or put another way, how does their time spend them)? Are there differences in the demands of managers in different positions, or withiin different organizations? These were the questions that famed management theorist Rosemary Stewart set out to uncover in her research back in the 1960s, resulting in the first edition of this episode’s subject–her book Managers and Their Jobs: A Study of the Similarities and Differences in the Ways Managers Spend Their Time.
The methodology is fascinating. Stewart asked 160 top managers in firms large and small to maintain diaries of their work over the course of four weeks. What were they doing and why? Poring over the data provided a rich accounting of their work and professional lives. This allowed her to develop a proposed taxonomy of managerial work that might not have become as renowned as other similar taxonomies but was based on strong empirical support. The five “job profiles” she developed were very convincing.
In this episode, we discuss the work and bring it into present-day focus. In what ways has managerial work changed or remained the same? Is it the nature of management that is changing or merely its character? And where should Rosemary Stewart’s work be placed in the context of management science? To discuss these and many more questions, we welcome Dr. Maja Korica of the Warwick Business School!
Korica, M., Nicolini, D., & Johnson, B. (2017). In search of ‘managerial work’: Past, present and future of an analytical category. International journal of management reviews,19(2), 151-174.
Nicolini, D., Korica, M., & Ruddle, K. (2015). Staying in the Know. MIT Sloan Management Review, 56(4), 57.
Stewart, R. (2003). Woman in a man’s world. Leadership Quarterly, 14(2), 197-197.
Porter, M. E., & Nohria, N. I. T. I. N. (2018). How CEOs manage time. Harvard business review, 96(4), 41-51.
