Ella Hafermalz

66: Workplace Isolation – Forester

July 16, 2020 Ella Hafermalz
In this episode (which took place in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic), we explore the social and emotional impacts to the worker on having to work from home. For some workers, the concept of telework is hardly new. But many other vocations place great value on regular social contact with clients and customers. These include teachers, doctors, lawyers, public servants, and many others. The sudden thrust to teleworking for an unknown period of time has raised questions as to how these workers are coping with the new normal.

57: Reward Systems – Steven Kerr

October 21, 2019 Ella Hafermalz
Steven Kerr

Why do organizations espouse one thing but do another? This is essentially what Steven Kerr asks in his popular 1975 article in the Academy of Management Journal, “On the Folly of Rewarding A, While Hoping for B,” on reward systems. Using examples ranging from politics and war to business and public sector settings, Kerr found a common pattern: that the organization’s goals are too often not supported by the things they actually reward and encourage. The context and relationships among actors may differ, but the result is too commonplace to ignore.

In Part 1 of this episode, we break down Kerr’s examples (which in some cases were peculiar to 1975) and consider how generalizable they really are. We also address key differences in the 1995 update, published in the Academy of Management Executive. Then in Part 2, we examine criticisms of the article, particularly Richard Boettger and Charles Greer’s rejoinder “On the Wisdom of Rewarding A While Hoping for B,” published in Organization Science in 1994.

Podcasting in this episode: Tom, Ella, Maikel, and Frithjof

Part 1. The Many Ways Reward Systems Can Go Wrong

 

Part 2. Is Fixing the Reward System Really Necessary?
Read With Us:

Kerr, S. (1975). On the folly of rewarding A, while hoping for B. Academy of Management Journal, 18(4), 769-783.

Kerr, S. (1995). AN ACADEMY CLASSIC: On the folly of rewarding A, while hoping for B. Academy of Management Perspectives, 9(1), 7-14.

To Learn More:

Boettger, R. D., & Greer, C. R. (1994). On the wisdom of rewarding A while hoping for B. Organization Science, 5(4), 569-582.

53: Taylorism in Motion — Charlie Chaplin’s Modern Times

March 14, 2019 Ella Hafermalz
We discuss Charlie Chaplin's 1936 film "Modern Times" balances great physical comedy with powerful social commentary. Chaplin portrayed a hapless Worker on an assembly line who is tormented both by supervisors and the work itself. After being subjected to a humiliating experiment intended to improve the line's efficiency, the Worker runs through a series of rotating jobs, stints in jail, and other misadventures as he tries to find his purpose in life.

51: The Tyranny of Light — Hari Tsoukas

December 6, 2018 Ella Hafermalz

  

Haridimos Tsoukas

Haridimos Tsoukas‘ 1997 article “The Tyranny of Light” was a bold article that challenged conventional wisdom about the oncoming information society. The Internet, personal computers, and the dot-com boom were still new and exciting. With information technologies advancing at an incredible pace, the sky (and the capacity of silicon) was the limit. Internet start-ups were sprouting up everywhere as young entrepreneurs strove to become the next Bill Gates. Never mind that the vast majority failed and faded quickly away (see Episode 49 and the example of normative control in a tech company). The possibilities seemed endless.

But so too were the dangers. Hari Tsoukas foresaw the problems that an information dominated society might produce. Could greater access to information have undesirable consequences, such as the loss of understanding or the growth of distrust? Could an information society disrupt socio-political norms? If these became true, what would happen.

Bolstered by hindsight and knowledge of how the information society evolved, we (your intrepid podcasters) take a look back at 1997.  To what extent Tsoukas got the future right, and what else transpired that Tsoukas could not have known or anticipated. What does this suggest for society and its leaders today?

 

 

You will also be able to download the audio files here: Part 1 | Part 2 |  Part 3

Read with us:

Tsoukas, H. (1997). The tyranny of light: The temptations and the paradoxes of the information society. Futures, 29(9), 827-843.

To know more:

Rivera, L. A. (2012). Hiring as cultural matching: The case of elite professional service firms. American sociological review, 77(6), 999-1022.

Rivera, L. A. (2016). Pedigree: How elite students get elite jobs. Princeton University Press.

Turco, C. J. (2016). The conversational firm: Rethinking bureaucracy in the age of social media. Columbia University Press.

50: Celebrating 50 Episodes! What Have We Learned?

November 27, 2018 Ella Hafermalz

Talking about organizations has reached 50 episodes!

 

Pedro and the mythical signed poster!
Ralph and Miranda in BIrmingham, UK around the time of Episode 15
Brian Pentland performing live on Episode 21
Dmitrijs and Pedro working hard at the TAOP Symposium

 

To mark this occasion, we gathered all seven of us hosts to discuss what we like (and perhaps not) about the podcast and podcasting, what our favorite or most remembered episodes were, and what we have learned along the way. 

Turns out, one of the key things we learned was how much such a small number of dedicated scholars and practitioners can do with a lot of motivation and energy. As we discuss, there were many in the beginning who scoffed at the idea of podcasting on classic and emerging organization theories and concepts of management science. But with over 12,000 active listeners worldwide, Talking About Organizations has proven to be useful and entertaining all at once.

We hope you enjoy this brief retrospective. Also, click on the below graphic to view all the places where we have podcasted from in our many travels — sometimes having to find unique and interesting places to record to avoid noise and other problems!

Did you know THAT…

  • the podcast grew out of intellectually fertile soil of the Innovation, Knowledge and Organisational Networks Research Centre at the Warwick Business School. Thank you Jacky Swan, Davide Nicolini, Dawn Coton and many others for your early support and feedback!
  • while TAOP is no longer the sole academic podcast of its kind in management and organization studies, it is by far the largest one? Enjoyed by over 12000 regular listeners, Talking About Organizations is a reminder to all of us of the value of conversations to intellectual development and of the interest that our community has in foundational texts.
  • by the 50th episode we have had the pleasure of welcoming 25 guests on the show 27 times? And this is excluding guests and keynote speakers for our special events!
  • Speaking of special events, December 2017 marked the very first time we independently hosted an event – the Symposium on the Continuities and Disruptions of Management in the Gig Economy, featuring a whole bunch of wonderful people! Also big thanks to Society for the Advancement of Management Studies and University of Sussex for providing the resources that made it possible!
  • Katharina Dittrich (E4 and E21) and Mats Alvesson (E28 and E32) are the only two guests to make more than a single appearance on the show? Katharina also holds the honor of being our very first guest!
  • the podcast has been referenced in two peer-reviewed journals? See du Gay and Vikkelso (2018) and Bridgman, Cummings and Ballard (2018) for examples of two articles showing exceptionally good taste in their choice of sources.
  • there is a myth that rare collectable artefacts from the early days of the podcast exist scattered throughout the land… these range from the five original coffee mugs to a unique signed poster from the time of E21. Rest assured – we don’t know where most of these are either.

49: Engineered Culture and Normative Control – Gideon Kunda

October 30, 2018 Ella Hafermalz

Gideon Kunda

Originally published in 1992, Gideon Kunda’s ethnographic study of a high-tech corporation altered the discourse on organizational culture. “Tech,” the firm being studied, was a firm on the rise and saw itself as a leader and ground breaker in the rapidly growing high-tech industries of the 1980s. But as the firm grew from a modest couple hundred to tens of thousands of employees and multiple sites, Tech undertook an effort to indoctrinate its members with its tried-and-true formula for success — hard work, sacrifice, and belief in the company. The degree to which this indoctrination occurred was extensive, from the choreographed leader messages, trained cultural experts and internal publications to the highly competitive and cut-throat nature of project work. Kunda captured it all in gripping detail.

The centerpiece of Kunda’s thesis was Tech’s exercise of normative control. This was ironic in a way given how Tech’s professed culture valued self-determination and autonomy. But, the rewards and sanctions were constructed to enforce a particular form of autonomy, one in which Tech extracted the most out of its people while breaking their lives in the process.
Does this mean ‘normative control’ as a mechanism for mission accomplishment is bad? As we dove into the text and applied its lessons to present-day matters, the question is actually difficult to answer as there are many factors to consider. Listen as we wrestle with this extraordinary and provocative text!

You may also download the audio files here: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3

Read with us:

Kunda, G. (2006). Engineering culture: Control and commitment in a high-tech corporation, Revised Edition. Philadelphia, PA: Temple University Press.

Related episodes from Tom’s podcast Reflections on Management:

Episode 1-3. Is ‘Competitive Advantage’ a Real Thing?

Episode 3-6. Can One Really Plan Culture Change?

To know more:

Rivera, L. A. (2012). Hiring as cultural matching: The case of elite professional service firms. American sociological review, 77(6), 999-1022.

Rivera, L. A. (2016). Pedigree: How elite students get elite jobs. Princeton University Press.

Turco, C. J. (2016). The conversational firm: Rethinking bureaucracy in the age of social media. Columbia University Press.

41: Images of Organization – Gareth Morgan

April 3, 2018 Ella Hafermalz

Gareth Morgan

We conclude Season 4 with one of our most ambitious efforts, tackling Gareth Morgan’s classic book Images of Organization, originally published in 1986. This lengthy and detailed volume synthesizes an incredible range of organization theories and concepts over the previous century and presents them under the umbrella of eight distinct metaphors. Each metaphor represents a different way of understanding the existence and  dynamics of organizations, their members, and their interactions with the environment.

Each metaphor stems from distinct literature streams and management practice, and many will be familiar to our listeners — many have been discussed in the podcast before. The first is of the machine, in which the organization is a closed system and members constitute its parts. The metaphor conjures up images of Frederick Taylor and scientific management from the early 20th century, yet it is still in use today (episodes 1, 18 and 40). Next comes the organism, where the organization is explained as an adaptive, competitive whole with needs that must be satisfied to grow and prosper (episodes 9 and 16). As brains, organizations learn and self-organize (episode 4, 19, 39). As cultures, they operationalize shared values (see episodes 11, 30, and 38). These four are well-known and highlight some attractive qualities of organization, but Morgan then follows them with four others that draw attention to the darker side of organization — political system, psychic prisons, flux and transformation (episode 31), or domination (episode 17). each describing different purposes and behaviors of organizations that bridge theory and practice.

But, as Morgan warns, metaphors are a way of ‘seeing and not seeing.’ While they may stretch “imagination in a way that can create powerful insights,” there is also the “risk of distortion” (p. 5). He presents both the strengths and limitations of each metaphor—what do they explain well and what do they not explain? His work has both an academic and a practical stance. He discusses how these metaphors might form the basis … as well as provide the foundation for managers to think about organizational processes in their workplaces.

The podcasters explored both the different metaphors presented as well as the overall idea of how they might complement each other (or not). The discussion also explored current organizational and managerial issues. This includes organizational commitment, which inspired Tom to prepare a sidecast on the idea of organizational commitment to members and the historical example of Milton Hershey that is still relevant today.

Listen as the podcasters discuss and debate Gareth Morgan’s Images of Organization and the use of metaphor. Afterward, ask yourself which metaphor would you use to describe your organization?

 

You may also download the audio files here:  Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Appendix (Text version here)

Read with us:

Morgan, G. (2006). Images of Organization, Updated Edition. Thousand Oaks, CA: Sage.

To know more:

Alvesson, M., & Spicer, A. (Eds.). (2010). Metaphors we lead by: Understanding leadership in the real world. Routledge.

Burrell, G., and G. Morgan. (1989). Sociological Paradigms and Organisational Analysis. Routledge.

Huq, J.-L., T. Reay, and S. Chreim. (2017). “Protecting the Paradox of Interprofessional Collaboration.” Organization Studies, 38: 513–538.

Lakoff, G., & Johnson, M. (1980/2008). Metaphors we live by. University of Chicago press.

Tsoukas, H. (2016). “Don’t Simplify, Complexify: From Disjunctive to Conjunctive Theorizing in Organization and Management Studies.” Journal of Management Studies, 54: 132–153.

Turco, C. J. (2016). The Conversational Firm: Rethinking Bureaucracy in the Age of Social Media. Columbia University Press.

Weick, K. E. (1989). “Theory Construction as Disciplined Imagination.” The Academy of Management Review, 14: 516.

Whyte, W. H. (2013). The Organization Man. University of Pennsylvania Press.

 

35: The Managed Heart – Arlie Hochschild

October 24, 2017 Ella Hafermalz
The Managed Heart, originally published in 1983 by Dr. Arlie Hochschild, introduced the concept of emotional labour as a counterpart to the physical and mental labour performed in the scope of one’s duties. The importance of emotional labour is made clear in Dr. Hochschild’s descrption of flight attendants, who regardless of the dispositions of airline passengers, turbulence in the flight, or personal stress is required to act and behave in ways that minimize passenger anxiety and encourage them to fly with that airline again. Thus, the book explores the challenges of stress, protecting one’s personal identity and private life, differentiated (and often unfair) gender roles, miscommunication between supervisors and workers or workers and clients, and others.

31: Process Studies, PROS and Institutional Theory LIVE

August 15, 2017 Ella Hafermalz

With Special Guests Trish Reay, Tammar Zilber, Hari Tsoukas, and Ann Langley

Ann Langley

Hari Tsoukas

Trish Reay

Tammar Zilber

Please join us for the first of two fascinating special episodes recorded from the International Process Symposium 2017. The aim of the Symposium is to consolidate, integrate, and further develop ongoing efforts to advance a sophisticated process perspective in organization and management studies. PROS is an annual event, organized in conjunction with the annual series Perspectives on Process Organization Studies published by Oxford University Press, and it takes place in a Greek island, in June every year.

In the first installment, Dmitrijs and Ella sit down to talk to Professors Trish Reay (University of Alberta) and Tammar Zilber (Hebrew University of Jerusalem) about institutional theory. The second is a conversation that Dmitrijs and Ella had with Professors Hari Tsoukas and Ann Langley about the process view in general and about PROS, as an academic congregation, in particular. At the end of the episode, Hari and Ann say a few words about the 2018 conference, it’s theme and the motivation behind it.

You may also download the audio files here:  Part 1 | Part 2
 

28: Organizations as Rhetoric

May 16, 2017 Ella Hafermalz
Our next episode in the JMS classics series covers Mats Alvesson's ", Organizations as Rhetoric: Knowledge-Intensive Firms and the Struggle with Ambiguity" from 1993 that concluded with the idea that organizations are best understood as 'systems of persuasion' where actors use their agency to engage in discourse on behalf of the organization.